Curse

Xethrion · Feb 25, 2007, 03:20 PM // 15:20

No.

The only way I'd vote yes, is if ANet balanced it by making PvP players get Protector of any continent before getting access to HA or GvG. After all, if we have to suffer unnecessary and illogical restrictions on what we can play, I don't see why the PvP players should be exempt.

Stockholm · Feb 25, 2007, 03:47 PM // 15:47

NO.

PvP should have no impact what so ever on the PvE part, it is bad enough that the "skill balances" needed for the ladders effect the casual players.

Viruzzz · Feb 25, 2007, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xethrion

No.

The only way I'd vote yes, is if ANet balanced it by making PvP players get Protector of any continent before getting access to HA or GvG. After all, if we have to suffer unnecessary and illogical restrictions on what we can play, I don't see why the PvP players should be exempt.

unnecessary, maybe. but the restrictions are quite logical. a team from a region fights in the hall of heroes (and is observed by the gods) and it would only make sense that the gods would only allow the people who are the strongest enter their realm.

and requiring PvP'ers to get protector of a continent is not even comparable to the way favor works. getting that title takes a lot of time, and you would want that to be required to do *almost any* pvp at all? while you get excluded from 2 areas in the *entire game* if your region is not doing best at the time. there are plenty of other places to fight, you don't have to be in UW/FoW, its not required for anything, its optional..

what you just suggested would equal exclusion from everything past LA/kaining/Kamadan unless you gained rank 3. and that is not a fair requirement at all, and neither is your suggestion.

the only reason the PvE-exclusive people think the favor system is a bad idea is because they can not farm the area for money, it is the only reason to keep going down there. you might argue that the quest rewards down there are useful for skill purchases and maybe even the survivor title track (although i don't see why you would try to do that in a high-risk area like that.)
I can understand the very low population regions having a problem with this, however they are not limited to that region, they do have the option of switching. if they really wish to gain access.

also to the person keeping track of the votes, i'm not sure what "yes" means, cause i am not really sure what exact question is. But please put me on the "pvp should control uw/fow access"-option if that is not the one i was put on already.

EDIT: I would like to add that ANET made it pretty clear what they think is most important between PvP and PvE, the prize-competitions are all PvP, the original game (prophecies) even had PvP-training elements in the campaign disguised as the 2 desert missions Dunes of despair and Thirsty River, one is a king of the hill kind of thing and the other is a battle against time with monsters that get resurrected at a shrine(like people would in some of HA or GvG).
Factions had the jade quarry, fort aspenwood, where you compete against players, and alliance battles. these don't really work well anymore because there nobody playing them. but the intentions seem pretty clear to me.
and finally the Nightfall campaign has a challenge mission that revolves around a GvG setting. where you work against the clock to kill guild lords.
And i have thought about it. but i can not think of any PvP place that would do the opposite, promote PvE

So to me it seems pretty clear that ANET wants PvP to be a(/the) major part in GW

Bryant Again · Feb 25, 2007, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viruzzz

the only reason the PvE-exclusive people think the favor system is a bad idea is because they can not farm the area for money,
it is the only reason to keep going down there.

No, it isn't. While it is true that a large incentive is the drops and chests, it's a very challenging area that's still playable. Also, it is the only place to get FoW, if someone truly wants to buy it.

Quote:

I can understand the very low population regions having a problem with this, however they are not limited to that region, they do have the option of switching. if they really wish to gain access.

If "low population regions" refers to Korea, Taiwan and Japan, then that's the problem. They cannot switch to Europe or American territories. The versions of Guild Wars that is available down there only allows switching for Korea, Taiwan, and Japan only. And so they are locked from a large and enjoyable area, and they can never obtain FoW armor.

Chris Blackstar · Feb 25, 2007, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viruzzz

EDIT: I would like to add that ANET made it pretty clear what they think is most important between PvP and PvE, the prize-competitions are all PvP,
So to me it seems pretty clear that ANET wants PvP to be a(/the) major part in GW

Let me tell you something dude, I would bet if all PvE players decided in one voice to BOYCOTT all future expansions/chapters of Guild Wars, it would be clear in my mind that guild wars would go under. In fact I am sure that the developers and marketing people at Anet would give into the boycott demands before it ever happened.

The only reason there are prizes avalable is because of the support from all the PvE players who have bought Anet products, because they enjoy the PvE aspects of the game. In other words with out PvE players like me, and all the others, guild wars would have die long ago.

Gli · Feb 25, 2007, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viruzzz

unnecessary, maybe. but the restrictions are quite logical. a team from a region fights in the hall of heroes (and is observed by the gods) and it would only make sense that the gods would only allow the people who are the strongest enter their realm.

Except, none of the people fighting there are interested to enter their realms. Instead, a group of people who coincidentally have something unrelated to the game in common with them, are granted entry. "Unrelated to the game?" you ask. Indeed, because the game isn't about Europe, America, Korea, Japan and Taiwan. It's about Ascalon, Kryta, Cantha, Istan, Kourna, etc. etc. Why would the gods of a fictional world worry about our real world? It takes away from the game. It destroys immersion, adds nothing except frustration and provides an outlet for hatred and racism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viruzzz

the only reason the PvE-exclusive people think the favor system is a bad idea is because they can not farm the area for money, it is the only reason to keep going down there.

Baseless generalization. There are plenty of reasons to think it's a bad idea. This thread is full of them. And don't conveniently forget the PvP exclusive people, many of whom also think it's a bad idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viruzzz

And i have thought about it. but i can not think of any PvP place that would do the opposite, promote PvE

Not only that, all the reasons for PvP-exclusives to involve themselves with PvE have been systematically removed from the game, with first the introduction of Balthazar Faction, and later on the PvP unlock packs. PvP people don't have to suffer through 'boring PvE' anymore if they don't want to, without any drawback to their game, but PvE people get told to 'Go win HA'. They've done everything they can to split the community right down the middle; they only left in the part that has always been and will always be a point of contention. What's the point? Do they enjoy watching the the fallout on the fan forums?

What does it take to fix this? Perhaps it's time to speak with actions instead of these monthly forum threads. Maybe each and every PvE player should move his account to Europe and cause our servers to collapse beneath the strain?

Smile Like Umean It · Feb 25, 2007, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viruzzz

unnecessary, maybe. but the restrictions are quite logical. a team from a region fights in the hall of heroes (and is observed by the gods) and it would only make sense that the gods would only allow the people who are the strongest enter their realm.

It's logical that the fictional gods of Tyria have any say so in the real world?

Quote:

if your region is not doing best at the time. there are plenty of other places to fight, you don't have to be in UW/FoW, its not required for anything, its optional..

Except that option is taken away from most PVEers by... you guessed it, PVP, who couldn't care less about favor.

Quote:

what you just suggested would equal exclusion from everything past LA/kaining/Kamadan unless you gained rank 3. and that is not a fair requirement at all, and neither is your suggestion.

I agree. If any thing was implemented giving restrictions of PVP from PVE it would do nothing, but piss people off. PVEers aren't going to care about any restriction PVE has on PVP the same way PVP doesn't give a damn about favor to get to UW/FoW. My guess is that suggestions like that are only getting thrown out because it's not fair that PVP holds something over PVE, while PVE has nothing on PVP. A does of your own medicine, I'd say.

Quote:

the only reason the PvE-exclusive people think the favor system is a bad idea is because they can not farm the area for money, it is the only reason to keep going down there. you might argue that the quest rewards down there are useful for skill purchases and maybe even the survivor title track (although i don't see why you would try to do that in a high-risk area like that.)

Bullcrap. The money and drops are bonuses, but the reason I and many others go is because we like the area. And the fact that even though most people are used to how to play there, the simplest mistake at the wrong group could lead to a part wipe out, so it's still a challenge. You can't generalize that people like that just because you think that's what it is.

Quote:

I can understand the very low population regions having a problem with this, however they are not limited to that region, they do have the option of switching. if they really wish to gain access.

Overlooking that fact that they shouldn't even have to switch, what happens when their switches are all used up? Or what Bryant said?

Navaros · Feb 25, 2007, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viruzzz

unnecessary, maybe. but the restrictions are quite logical. a team from a region fights in the hall of heroes (and is observed by the gods) and it would only make sense that the gods would only allow the people who are the strongest enter their realm.

and requiring PvP'ers to get protector of a continent is not even comparable to the way favor works. getting that title takes a lot of time, and you would want that to be required to do *almost any* pvp at all? while you get excluded from 2 areas in the *entire game* if your region is not doing best at the time. there are plenty of other places to fight, you don't have to be in UW/FoW, its not required for anything, its optional..

what you just suggested would equal exclusion from everything past LA/kaining/Kamadan unless you gained rank 3. and that is not a fair requirement at all, and neither is your suggestion.

the only reason the PvE-exclusive people think the favor system is a bad idea is because they can not farm the area for money, it is the only reason to keep going down there. you might argue that the quest rewards down there are useful for skill purchases and maybe even the survivor title track (although i don't see why you would try to do that in a high-risk area like that.)
I can understand the very low population regions having a problem with this, however they are not limited to that region, they do have the option of switching. if they really wish to gain access.

also to the person keeping track of the votes, i'm not sure what "yes" means, cause i am not really sure what exact question is. But please put me on the "pvp should control uw/fow access"-option if that is not the one i was put on already.

EDIT: I would like to add that ANET made it pretty clear what they think is most important between PvP and PvE, the prize-competitions are all PvP, the original game (prophecies) even had PvP-training elements in the campaign disguised as the 2 desert missions Dunes of despair and Thirsty River, one is a king of the hill kind of thing and the other is a battle against time with monsters that get resurrected at a shrine(like people would in some of HA or GvG).
Factions had the jade quarry, fort aspenwood, where you compete against players, and alliance battles. these don't really work well anymore because there nobody playing them. but the intentions seem pretty clear to me.
and finally the Nightfall campaign has a challenge mission that revolves around a GvG setting. where you work against the clock to kill guild lords.
And i have thought about it. but i can not think of any PvP place that would do the opposite, promote PvE

So to me it seems pretty clear that ANET wants PvP to be a(/the) major part in GW

Nothing at all logical about it. The gods don't let the strongest hardcore PVP players who won Favor enter their realm - those players rarely if ever go to UW/FOW. Additionally, one region fielding teams that win HoH 5 in a row is due largely to happenstance, not strongness. Additionally, as of NF according to the "official" storyline the gods no longer interfere with the world. Additionally, America/Taiwan/Korea/Europe etc. have no connection to the gods. Hence that statment of gods watching HoH matches and letting the strongest in UW/FOW makes no sense. But even if it did make sense, it would still be a horrible reason anyhow. Ie: The lore didn't make sense for Avatar of Grenth to be nerfed a ton, he is supposed to be a god after all, and it's ok for gods to be unbalanced from a lore perspective. Certainly not logical from a lore perspective for Grenth to be nerfed because some PVP players thought he was too powerful. But it was changed for what was in Anet's opinion, the good of the game. So should it be with Favor. Using a "lore argument" to justify really bad game mechanics is never logical.

Again, who cares if people want to be able to farm UW/FOW? There is nothing wrong with that. Stating that as a "reason" as if saying it has meaning in and of itself does make it a valid point. Legit farmers' fun are just as valid as PVP players'.

The requiring of a Protector title to do PVP is a bad idea only because it is way easier for any PVP player to get a Protector title than it would be for a PVE player to assemble or in any way participate in hardcore R9+ PUG that is capable of getting to and winning HoH 5 times in a row. If the Favor system is to stay as is, then for the sake of balance and fairness indeed PVE should affect PVP players' ability to play in PVP areas. But that effect should be on par with the ludicrousity of the difficulty of expecting a PVE player to get Favor. For them to be even somewhat equal, it would have to be something like every PVP player must beat all of NF and then beat all of DOA before having access to HA.

It doesn't really matter if Anet thinks GW is a PVP-based game or not. The vast majority of the GW playerbase is PVE, and always will be. Having their fun unfairly limited by the miniority of PVP players - most of whom have the good grace to want Favor removed even though they never go to UW/FOW, so actually it's a very small miniority within the minority - makes no sense at all.

Viruzzz · Feb 25, 2007, 07:35 PM // 19:35

ok. quite a lot to comment on... expect unorganized paragraphs..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Blackstar

Let me tell you something dude, I would bet if all PvE players decided in one voice to BOYCOTT all future expansions/chapters of Guild Wars, it would be clear in my mind that guild wars would go under. In fact I am sure that the developers and marketing people at Anet would give into the boycott demands before it ever happened.

The only reason there are prizes avalable is because of the support from all the PvE players who have bought Anet products, because they enjoy the PvE aspects of the game. In other words with out PvE players like me, and all the others, guild wars would have die long ago.

i really doubt you could get even 10% of the PvE'ers to boycott anything. not everybody reads the boards and certainly not everybody plays in UW/FoW.
and what about PvP players who have bought Anet things, why would PvE'ers spend any more money than pvp'ers? and when it comes down to it I doubt that you pay a large amount of money of any for the prizes that are given out. most of the prizes come from sponsor corporations who just want to plaster their logo/name everywhere.

and for the whole gw/real world, why not? The way I see it that is the only point in the heroes ascent. if there was no sides competing it would just be GvG.
and to whoever mentioned racism. if this inspires racism in people then that is a problem with the player, not a problem with the game.

farming ecto/shards might not be the only thing people do in the realms of the gods, but it is definitely the most common one.
and if you just go there for a challenge, then i can only suggest trying out PvP. AI is easy to fight, it is not creative, and it is predictable. fighting real players is a lot harder than any PvE

PvP used to require skills unlocked through PvE, that was a lot more than what is happening now. the only thing that is being restricted pve-wise is *2* areas, that are not needed for any campaign. they are optional, and you should have no problem finding something else to do if those are not available at the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smile Like Umean It

I agree. If any thing was implemented giving restrictions of PVP from PVE it would do nothing, but piss people off. PVEers aren't going to care about any restriction PVE has on PVP the same way PVP doesn't give a damn about favor to get to UW/FoW. My guess is that suggestions like that are only getting thrown out because it's not fair that PVP holds something over PVE, while PVE has nothing on PVP. A does of your own medicine, I'd say

i will point to the thing right above this quote. PvP currently only restricts 2 areas in the entire game, over all 3 campaigns, if you require people to finish either one of the protector titles, that would be the equivalent of restricting 80-90% of the game from pve'ers, but once again. we're talking about 2 areas (so far, until they release more of the god's realms). If anything like that was being forced upon the PvE community then i would agree that it is unfair. but as it is now. I don't see how access to 2 "elite" areas (as in the hardest place you can go in prophecies) is unfair. what you want is simply free access whenever. and that would take the prestige in the areas away. noone is forcing you to go through UW/FoW, and both america and europe has favor on a somewhat regular basis.

Noone is forcing anyone to switch region because they don't have access, what i meant is that if you are online at times where your region does not have favor, and it's this way consistently you can switch to, say europe. and stay there.

And finally. if you say that the PvE community really does contain the majority of players. then how hard can it be to find 8 people who will have the intelligence to work out a pvp build, and go fight for the rest of you?

Some of this might seem offensive, I'm not gonna bother sugarcoating anything. its not meant offensively to anyone, so sorry if it seems that way.

Chris Blackstar · Feb 25, 2007, 07:57 PM // 19:57

You know what the sad truth is Viruzzz, you are only one out of 30 players who voted yes to a dumb idea that Favor should stay, and for all the wrong reasons. It clearly shows the attitued of a small minority of players who make playing HA no fun at all.

I played both parts of the game, PvE and every aspect of PvP, and even I think favor is stupid, and I rarely go to the UW or FoW. However it is not just those areas that are effected, like mentioned ealier, shines are also effected.

The PvE communitry wants change, just as the PvP community got changes they wanted for HA in the forms of skill nerfs and buffs, I think it is only fair that such changes occur. I know for a fact that it will only better relations between the communities if favor was to be eliminated for the game, and would have no effect on HA at all.

Sorry if I sound like I am Flaming or Trolling, I am not trying to do either, I am just trying to make a point.

RichPowers · Feb 25, 2007, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viruzzz

and both america and europe has favor on a somewhat regular basis.

Players in Korea, Taiwan and Japan are keenly aware of this. How often to they get access to UW/FOW...hmmmm

If the devs are intent on restricting PvE access based on PvP, then at least come up with a better system. Using real-world locations to determine fantasy-world favor of the gods is a bit absurd.

Bryant Again · Feb 25, 2007, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viruzzz

and for the whole gw/real world, why not? The way I see it that is the only point in the heroes ascent. if there was no sides competing it would just be GvG.

Do you refer to Favor being the only point in Heros' Ascent? It most certainly is not. It's an alternative to Guild battles. Guild battles have completely different mechanics, and calls for different builds, than HA.

People go to HA to fame farm, earn faction, get their name up, and earn goodies such as sigils and other very high-end drops (like Crystallines). Not to battle the other country.

Also, there are no competing sides anyway. People in American territories just go to the INT district and play with europeans and other countries.

Quote:

and if you just go there for a challenge, then i can only suggest trying out PvP. AI is easy to fight, it is not creative, and it is predictable. fighting real players is a lot harder than any PvE

Yes, it's harder, but some people may find PvE more fun, just as how PvPers find it more fun than PvE. And with AI you don't have to deal with elitist nonsence, "noob" calling, etc. Call me crazy, but I prefer not to get yelled at in my game. Some people might just prefer killing hordes of monsters over and over, and that's fine.

Quote:

The only thing that is being restricted pve-wise is *2* areas, that are not needed for any campaign. they are optional, and you should have no problem finding something else to do if those are not available at the time.

And those will be the only two elite areas you can go into if you only own Prophecies.

Quote:

if you require people to finish either one of the protector titles, that would be the equivalent of restricting 80-90% of the game from pve'ers,

It would call for a lot of work, I agree. Maybe if you just beat the game to the end, then give them full acess to UW and FoW.

And even if you did have to do Protector, you would then have free acess whenever you wanted.

Quote:

Noone is forcing anyone to switch region because they don't have access, what i meant is that if you are online at times where your region does not have favor, and it's this way consistently you can switch to, say europe. and stay there.

Again, Korea, Japan and Taiwan cannot switch to European districts. So not only can they not go into UW and FoW, they can't get any benefits from shrines in NF and Factions.

Quote:

And finally. if you say that the PvE community really does contain the majority of players. then how hard can it be to find 8 people who will have the intelligence to work out a pvp build, and go fight for the rest of you?

Pretty hard, since a mostly PvE player will have not much knowledge in PvP tactics.

My vote is still a bold, firm no.

Shmanka · Feb 25, 2007, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Admins Bane

Favor sucks but what other way is there to limit access to FoW/UW?? can't allow everyone access all the time.

There for I vote "yes"

Yet people have 24/7 access to gvg/ha/ta/ra/farm/run/missions/trade.. etc

Your point is flawed... completely.

Gli · Feb 25, 2007, 10:46 PM // 22:46

One thing I find extremely funny about this thread is how the vast majority of the 'Yes' voters don't seem to understand the question they're answering.

The question is NOT "Should access to UW/Fow be in any way restricted?

The question is "Should PvP results affect access to PvE areas of the game?"

Not the same thing by a long shot.

Rene Saliere · Feb 25, 2007, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

it would only make sense that the gods would only allow the people who are the strongest enter their realm.

Hmm, the strongest? Speaking of logic with regard to the Gods: Balthazar - Protector Title? Dwayna - Survivor Title? Melandru - Exploration Title? Lyssa - Wisdom? Grenth - /Deaths count?

Quote:

the only reason the PvE-exclusive people think the favor system is a bad idea is because they can not farm the area for money, it is the only reason to keep going down there.

* See my post titled 'It's the economy, stupid', and btw, I already have Obsidian Armour, and my interest now is solely in completing the challenging Quests.

* As for money, I made/make a substantial amount more gold farming in other (all access) areas.

* I bought (with my farmed gold) the majority of my Ectos and Shards from the full time multiple account/server traders many 'Yes' voters seem to despise so much because access to UW/FoW was limited. You will never see a pro trader complain about the Favor system - it serves them very well, indeed.

Quote:

So to me it seems pretty clear that ANET wants PvP to be a(/the) major part in GW

They seem to have spent a lot more time on the Campaign areas than the PvP areas. Grandmaster Cartographer of The Battle Isles? /Laugh. Seems pretty clear the opposite is true, based on hours spent making the game.

Also seems pretty clear, the most appealing part of the game for the majority of players is PvE, and in the harsh world of selling games, the customer is usually right. This poll is free market research.
EDIT: I want to reiterate this is not about PvE being more important than PvP. The purpose of this vote is to address what many see as an unfair influence one play mode has over another. I have no problem with ANet adding more PvP content to GW.

Quote:

also to the person keeping track of the votes, i'm not sure what "yes" means, cause i am not really sure what exact question is.

Should PvP results affect access to PvE areas of the game? (I typed it twice, in bold, on the first post, and in the title of the thread. My name is Rene.

)

tomcruisejr · Feb 25, 2007, 11:04 PM // 23:04

How about removing favor and people who have Kind of a Big Deal Title are the only ones permitted to do UW/FoW or other elite missions so even those shit gold ebayers will be required to play PVE?

Rene Saliere · Feb 25, 2007, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

How about removing favor and people who have Kind of a Big Deal Title are the only ones permitted to do UW/FoW or other elite missions so even those shit gold ebayers will be required to play PVE?

I'd agree except Ebayers can still get:

Sweet Tooth
Drunken
Treasure
Wisdom

and, arguably, the three new planned Skill Hunter titles at (approx) 90K each.

On a side note, this doesn't seem to deter ANet from threatening real PvE Protector Titles with the possible Hard Mode update.

Vermilion · Feb 25, 2007, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Hmmmm. Just to answer the original question..No. Really I just think rotating the favor for different regions at logical times makes the most sense. I sorta forget the whole connection to favor when Im in HA, lol.The Winning Message for Halls could be something like..

"Lawl 12345" Has won in the Hall of Heroes and maintains leetness for his/herself.

tomcruisejr · Feb 25, 2007, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion

The Winning Message for Halls could be something like..

"Lawl 12345" Has won in the Hall of Heroes and maintains leetness for his/herself.

how about

"Rit Spiker FTW, with his team/guild, has won a battle in the Hall of the Heroes and is 13 fame away from rank 7."

Free Runner · Feb 25, 2007, 11:25 PM // 23:25

No

I dont see the point of the current system. I play on the Euro servers so i dont have to worry about the favor most of the time. But i remember how frustrating it used to be with America taking halls all the time and Europe getting it for about an hour or so.

Gotta admit it is frustrating getting a group ready for UW only to have another server take the favor.